An Exchange Across Perspectives: Regarding Migration, Woke Culture, and Finding Common Ground

Samuel, 34, London

Occupation PR specialist

Voting record A former Labour member since 16, he recently switched to the Greens and plans to vote for them.

Amuse bouche Wrote a light-hearted book detailing the canine companions of philosophers.

Cat, Twenty-Four, London

Occupation Between jobs, her last role was as a caseworker aiding homeless patients.

Political affiliation Cast her first ballot for the Lib Dems as a tactical vote, later voting Green.

Amuse bouche During the pandemic university closure, she took a job in a mortuary, which later informed her academic thesis.

For starters

Catrina He had a radiant smile and a lively, energetic personality. His eye-catching pink suit was, he mentioned, his wedding attire.

Samuel She impressed me immediately. Having recently returned from a four-month Silk Road journey, she sparked my envy. Her intellectual curiosity and conversational skill made the discussion easy.

Catrina The menu was an eclectic fusion, blending German and Korean influences. I chose a hotdog, we shared an oyster, and enjoyed some cocktails.

Samuel My order consisted of a lobster roll, an oyster, and finished with a Korean doughnut.

The Main Course

Catrina The basis for my stance on high immigration levels is the recent net migration statistic. From a worldwide perspective, I believe it's problematic for the UK to recruit skilled professionals from regions experiencing their own talent drains, such as West Africa.

Samuel It’s not that Catrina’s unwelcoming or racist; it’s more that she was concerned that by allowing a vacuum in our system, which needs doctors etc to come and work for us, we were creating a brain drain elsewhere. I said it reminded me of that Stewart Lee anti-Ukip sketch: “I think the brightest and best should stay in Bulgaria”. She said that was her favourite sketch.

Catrina A significant portion of migration figures are international students, and universities have financial incentives to enrol them. While I cherish our multicultural society, the current system seems flawed.

Samuel I grasped her argument. However, the draw of our world-class universities is powerful. The issue isn't the students themselves, but a system that prioritises revenue over societal good.

Side Dishes

Catrina On so-called 'woke' culture, I believe it has overreached. My criticism is that it often focuses too much on personal behaviour rather than systemic change. Problems like racism are embedded in society; making it purely individual can deter people from the conversation.

Samuel Catrina and I are probably thinking of people like Ash Sarkar or Slavoj Žižek, who argue that the problem with woke culture is that it’s dividing the left. It doesn’t need a debate: you treat human beings as you’d like to be treated, you go through life showing love and respect, and people return it to you.

For afters

Catrina He had a brighter outlook on tech and AI. I see social media as a major complicating factor in politics and a detriment to personal wellbeing.

Samuel It’s difficult to completely disagree that social media algorithms keep us trapped in doom spirals. But I come at it from the point of view that you’ve got all of these incredible advances in technology over the last 200 years, that speak to the desire of humans to connect with each other and find answers to the puzzles we’ve been wondering about for ever. AI is helping screen more effectively for cancer.

Takeaways

Catrina We exchanged numbers. He was a really nice man, I’d love to catch up with him again.

Samuel She gave me a postcard that she’d picked up from Kazakhstan, a picture of this old disused industrial site where someone’s painted this lovely mural on an unloved wall. I thought that was really beautiful. It left me thinking: “God, I should have done something thoughtful like that.”